Today I got five emails from authors all alerting me to a website that had 32 of our books and an equal number of other publishers’ books on it, scanned in and uploaded as PDFs for anyone to freely download. If it sounds like harmless sharing to you, please read this post and educate yourself on pirating.
First, the background: people loves to steal our books. Libraries and bookstores have claimed for years that some of their most frequently stolen stock are the religious books – anything from the Bible to those on witchcraft and magic. Whether this comes from a belief that all sacred knowledge should be free, a desire to hold onto a book containing so much wisdom (or so many exercises that can’t all be gotten through in the three-week lending period!), or, in the case of witchcraft books, concern that others in their small community might find out that the reader has an interest in these topics, and thus be “outed,” it’s always seemed a little strange anyway. If you’re specifically looking for a book on spirituality, doesn’t that imply that you’re trying to make yourself a better person? In that case, why start off on the wrong foot by stealing a book?
With this pattern having been in place for years, it should shock no one that in the digital age this would quickly translate over to stealing spirituality ebooks in any form. The music industry has wrestled with illegal downloads for years – we all know there are file sharing programs and sites that easily circumvent established means of distribution.
This is what a copyright notice looks like, stupid pirater.
The website I was sent multiple times today is a repeat offender. I won’t post a link here because I don’t want to drive traffic to her site. Let’s just say that she has a nifty little disclaimer about how she got all these PDFs of ebooks off the internet (presumably absolving herself of responsibility, having not scanned them in herself) and that as far as she knows they are not violating anyone’s copyright. And if she is in error, to please let her know. (I guess there was something about the COPYRIGHT PAGE of each of our books that she failed to understand.)
Llewellyn, Red Wheel/Weiser, and other publishers have notified this person, by writing to the email address listed on the website, several times. And yet that notice is still up, and our books are still there for illegal downloading. So today (after the very first email I received) we sent a DCMA takedown notice to her ISP, and hopefully those pages of her website will be removed soon. [Update: it looks like it’s working. I’ll check again from home, and again tomorrow.]
But since I kept hearing about it all day, regardless of our invisible-to-the-outside-world actions (which are things we deal with every day, incidentally), I wanted to post a few thoughts for you all to consider and hopefully discuss.
MYTHS ABOUT PIRATED BOOKS
“It doesn’t cost them anything to make an ebook, so why should I pay for it?”
This one I’ve also heard for legal, paid downloads, except in that case it goes “It doesn’t cost them anything to make an ebook, so why should I pay a normal book price for it? It should cost only $1.99/[insert your own price here]. I mean, I even had to buy a device to read it in the first place.”
Here’s the thing. First of all, an author wrote that book. They spent hundreds of hours researching, writing, editing, proofing, revising, communicating with their publisher, and in many cases, teaching, lecturing, writing a blog, marketing, etc. in order to have their good name in the field, in order for their manuscript to be desirable for publication. So that’s one person that should be paid for their effort.
Secondly, multiple people are involved in publishing a good book:
- the editor who carefully selects, acquires, contracts and develops it (that’s me, in this case),
- the editors who copy edit and proof it (the production editor, layout designer, and proofreader),
- the marketing team that writes the back cover copy, web copy, catalog copy, and so on,
- the cover designer who created a cover,
- the publicity team that sends out a press release, galley, or review copy to your favorite Pagan podcaster,
- the accounting staff who send out the royalty checks and pay our bills,
- the IT department that converts our book files to ePub formats and keeps our websites and servers running.
These are all fixed costs, whether the book comes out in print or digital (unless the author is self-published, in which case he or she can have more control over the pricing of the book and also gets to keep more of the profit). If you add a print release (not digital-only) then you can add the sales staff, customer service, and the warehouse crew. Basically the only thing you’re taking out of the entire equation by downloading an ebook is the cost of paper, printing, and distribution (trucking, shipping, etc.), and the people who make sure the physical copies get sent to the customers, whether those are bookstores or people. So are you still so convinced that your ebook should only cost a dollar? Or nothing?
“It’s the same as borrowing a book from a library, or from a friend.”
Um, except for the fact that the library bought a copy of the book, or your friend bought a copy of the book. (Even libraries that now do digital lending.) And that they have a finite number of copies (physical or digital) that they are able to lend out at any given time – not a file that can be downloaded over and over again in the blink of an eye by complete strangers all over the world.
Let me put it this way – surely you would lend $10 to a friend in need. But would you put up your PayPal account details on the internet for the world to see with a note that says “hey, feel free to borrow ten bucks”? If you did, I’m guessing you’d go broke immediately, unless you have some very deep pockets.
“But publishers have very deep pockets.”
Maybe some do – but I’ve never worked for a publisher that does. We’re talking about Pagan books here. It’s a niche. We hope to sell 5,000 copies if the book is to be successful. (And, not to shake your confidence in the system or anything, but some of our books only sell hundreds of copies and we don’t make a dime.) We are not selling Harry Potter here! We are not flying our authors around on world tours or taking them out for three-martini lunches! Being an independent, midsized publisher in a small field is not a license to print money.
Here is a great quote to illustrate the situation, written by Colin Robinson, who formerly worked for a large New York publisher:
Books have always been a low-profit item and in recent years margins have been shrinking even further. Publishers now regularly give bookshops a 50 per cent or even a 55 per cent discount on the retail price. The distributor that warehouses and delivers the book will typically take 10 per cent of what remains, or more if you are a small publisher; 15 per cent goes on production (printing, paper, typesetting). Add another 10 per cent for the author’s royalties and the publisher is left with 10 per cent to cover promotion costs, rent and office expenses, wages – and profit. No wonder it’s called the gentleman’s profession.
“But authors have deep pockets.”
While you wait for me to stop laughing, did you notice the author’s royalty in the quote above? It’s not much, and it can actually be even less depending on the genre, the format of publishing, and a variety of other factors. Authors don’t have deep pockets either – they cannot afford to give you their book for free. If they could, they would! (And some actually have, just as many musicians are now releasing their music and letting their fans decide what to pay for it.)
Most authors support themselves with full-time jobs in addition to writing and enriching their communities. The very few who don’t work a “day job” have to tour and teach constantly to make a salary to live off of. Some even sell potions, spells, or courses on the internet to add a little income. And yet they still provide plenty of free content on their websites, blogs, facebook pages and other media. They are more than willing to share – up to a point. If they approach a publisher to publish their book, it means, by default, that they want to get paid for it. It has value. So do them a favor and buy their book if you appreciate their work and want to make sure that they continue to write for, communicate with, and teach the community in the future.
“But it’s all over the internet anyway…”
Go ahead and read all the free blog posts you want. Learn about Wicca by putting together information from ten different websites. Go ahead and search for that certain spell you need on Google. Not sure what to do for next month’s full moon? Just type it into the search box. Go onto the Internet Sacred Text Archive or Patheos and learn about the world’s religions. These are all perfectly valid ways to get information. There are TONS of free resources on the internet – ones that are given freely by their creators. (Perhaps because they have ad revenue they can rely on. Perhaps they just do it out of the goodness of their heart.) So why do people even feel the need to download whole books in the first place? By wanting to download a book more than you want to read a website or blog (etc.), you are admitting that it has a certain value that is greater than what you can browse for free. The sum is greater than its parts. So please, pay for it.
“But I’m poor, I can’t afford to buy these books myself…”
See the above list of free resources. And visit your local library.
“But I wasn’t even sure I would like it, so why pay money on it?”
In today’s book-buying world, that is no longer an excuse. You can get previews of just about any books online, either at Amazon, GoogleBooks, or the publisher’s own website. You can browse reviews from other readers on GoodReads or other retailers’ websites. You can visit the author’s website or blog and see if you like their writing style or agree with their ideas. You can ask your facebook friends if they ever read the book and would recommend it.
“Information should be free!”
I totally agree, to a point. Information is what permeates the very fabric of the universe; information is as basic and integral to life itself as light, and so far no one is charging for light. Information is heady and exciting. Hermes/Mercury, the god of communication, is also the god of tricksters and thieves, so it’s not unreasonable to expect he’d be encouraging illegal downloads.
However, he is also god of merchants – trading, bartering, and yes, paying for goods and services. If you step back and look at the big picture, information is just a type of energy. And energy is never static, it must be exchanged. Money is also a form of energy – it’s how our minutes and hours of toiling away at something we might not always like get converted into poker chips we can trade in for things we like better. Therefore, it’s not only acceptable to use the energy of money in exchange for the energy of information – it’s divine. Like the universe itself, you are keeping energy in balance, in motion, in an unbroken chain, just as it likes.
Thanks for listening to my rant today. Please, feel free to discuss in the comments… I’m curious to hear your opinions and thoughts on this matter.
Excellent! Thank you for explaining this so well. I am an author (pagan and non-pagan), though I self pubbed the first book, but that really doesn’t change much. It takes months, sometimes longer, to get the query letters just right, to do all the research to find the right agent, the right publisher, and there isn’t much in it for those of us that actually did the writing! I make about 59 cents on each print book sold and about $1.39 for each ebook sold. It took a LONG time to get everything going.
I have recently “started over” with my first book because I want to revise it and republish it traditionally.
I do, however feel the pain when I go shopping for Kindle books and see they cost as much as, if not more than, the printed version. I have issues with a 25 dollar ebook that is 10 dollars in print. I just don’t buy ebooks that cost more than 9.99, and I won’t even buy those if they are within 2 dollars of the printed version. I feel they should be cheaper, but not free.
Thanks for a great blog and explanation.
Diedra – and others – where are you seeing these ebooks that are $25 compare to $10 in print?? I’ve never seen this before, unless perhaps you’re talking $25 ebook from the publisher and $10 paperback, used or third party… really? Are people doing that? It’s quite the opposite here.
Elysia,
This is one of the best examples I have seen.
http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Story-Dresden-Files-No/dp/045146379X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325819391&sr=8-1
The current price as of today for the hardback is only 2.22. The Current price difference between the ebook (14.99) and the paper back (9.99) is 5.00.
Why would I buy the kindle edition at all?
Elysia, no, ’twas not SPAM. I am sincerely concerned about the new SOPA internet-censorship law and its draconian global impacts (many of these large parent companies have offices in several other companies, and one in the US tried to demand that the US extradite a British citizen for prosecution for alleged copyright violation, recently!), which many big-name publishers are unfortunately getting behind, such as HarperCollins. So, considering all that I’ve read about this un-American piece of legislation this week, it has me on pins and needles every time that I happen upon a Blog or article that seems to be touching upon the subject of on-line piracy.
I think this is fodder for another whole blog post – but if I posted on this, Amazon might remove our “buy” buttons from their website, lol!
What you are seeing there are Amazon prices, which they set at will, regardless of what they are paying the publisher. The hardbacks’ official price is $27 – but Amazon is selling it for $17 to undercut its competitors, and its third party affiliates are selling used and/or new copies for $9. Meanwhile the paperback isn’t even out yet and Amazon has the sale price set at $9.99. I don’t know if you noticed, but it doesn’t come out till August 2012. That gives Amazon lots of time to keep selling the Kindle book for $14.99, until they slash the price again when the paperback comes out.
The Kindle edition price is set by Amazon only, so you can’t even see a “list” price for it – the publisher has no input WHATSOEVER. Amazon pays them the wholesale price and then charges whatever benefits them most at the moment.
I realize that for the consumer it all comes down to “what is the cheapest” – but as I’ve tried to express in this post on piracy, price is not the only factor, by far! And in your example it’s all about how Amazon manipulates the market, which publishers and authors have ever decreasing control over.
OK Wade, understood. Well, Llewellyn can’t afford lobbyists, so I’m sure we have nothing to do with getting behind internet censorship laws.
I would also like to add that markwting is MURDER on the pocketbook. For anyone to even KNOW your book is out there to pirate it means that the hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of hours and dollars spent did at least some of their job. That in itself should be proof enough that the books should be paid for.
Elysia, the example given of the Dresden Files book is just one. It happens most often on newly released books by big name authors. It isn’t supposedly used copies either. I see it all the time on Amazon.
I know those “used” copies are just a way for them to undercut everyone else though. I know because they claimed to have someone with 10 used copies a week before the book was even printed!
Because I self pubbed my “green” book and did not allow the publisher to put it into kindle format (I did it myself), I am able to set the price for my kindle book, but I have no say in the price charged for my print book. I think they charge too much for it, but only republishing it will correct that.
thank you for leaving post – i agree people should not profit off others copyrighted works illegally however downloading and reading a copy of any book is always covered by “Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship.” – if you feel like researching or reporting or criticizing or just scholarly pursuit of any copyrighted piece of work it is NEVER illegal to obtain a copy of that work for those purposes.
I deal with public domain and fair use every day, bro! Don’t try to tell me. Also, as I said in my first comment, that is not what the post was about. There was a website uploading more than 30 of our books. For free. Not for commentary, criticism, news reporting, or anything else. That’s just plain illegal. Case closed, and sorry, I don’t welcome your comments anymore.
[…] offered to readers as “free”. Llewellyn Worldwide and others state these books are stolen. http://www.llewellyn.com/blog/2012/01/myths-about-pirated-books/ Educate yourself about pirated books. The site which is accused of piracy: […]
This is being discussed over on LiveJournal: http://pagan.livejournal.com/1756967.html … I just put in my 2¢ as a former publisher.
And, to echo comments above, it is a fairly common experience to see the Kindle edition priced above the “dead tree” edition over on Amazon!
I’m a firm believer that piracy is an issue of market conditions. Most people will pay for a legitimate copy of something they want, if given the opportunity.
If not given the opportunity, they will take a free illegal copy.
Does Llewellyn make all of these books available as ebooks on Amazon and other digital vendors? If so, the demand for these pirated versions will dwindle.
If you refuse to digitize your product, you can count on a pirate to do it for you. It doesn’t make it right, but it’s a given – so a smart publisher sells ebooks as well as hard books.
Yes it is bad out there, but the law is there and it can be used to hit the various websites holding the material.
I have personally issued five DCMA takedowns for different Llewellyn books I have written. ISPs consider it normal and really it needs to be the first thing (not the second or third thing) which needs to be done to protect content. But really it is what the publisher should have been doing, and not the author.
Anyway the publishing industry needs to learn from the Music industry and there are some valuable lessons here. Firstly you are not going to stop piracy while the product’s price is too high (piracy is highest in poorer countries) and publishers in general have missed the boat with ebooks (content which costs pennies to make, with the author still getting a tiny percentage being sold at a price which is the same as a hard copy is insane). Lastly don’t waste time trying to educate users because they will not be educated. If it is more convenient to pirate they will do, the publishers have to make it inconvenient by closing down distribution points and that is what the DCMA is for.
Tell me about it. I have never had a penny out of my Indian publishers, and have been fortunate enough to even have had my MSS pirated out there. And as for my web site, it’s being filched all the time.
I can see both sides, I dont advocate steeling books, but I also like to know what I’m buying, I have a “compleat book on candy making” that set me back a fair penny, that is mostly instructional on how to dip things in chocolate, and I totaly agree that’s part of candy making, that is far from what I was looking for. So it’s a nice book, it’s finely bound and the cover is nicely embossed, but I realy dont care for it.
So in my frustration I went and downloaded 10 books on the subject, guess what, off them all I only cared for two, and I was happy to go buy the one that is still in print and easily had, the other “a treaties on the art of sugar boiling” is hard to find at any price, and copyright 1864 I bealive. So in that case without the modern sharing, the information in that tome of confectionary knowledge could be forever lost.
I did erase the other books being of no use to me. And in owning a honest copy of the one I feel no shame in keeping the digital copy to read at my conveyance. The other, being both hard to find and of great cultural value, would be legal to copy anyway, additionally the copyright is ever so slightly expired.lol
Just some thoughts on the subject for better or worse, thats how I shop for meny odd instructionals now, but I do honestly buy those I find useful and sease to use those I do not.
As far as the type of book you write, I wait, and buy them from you at an event, and get the best value… as that includes autograph and a handshake.
It appears many of my thoughts were addressed in the comments.
I’ve encountered many situations on Amazon where the kindle edition is pricier than the paperback. This is a new phenomenon that I’ve read (can’t find the link offhand) is actually being investigated as some sort of backroom deal between Amazon and big publishers. I may just be spreading rumors with that, I’ll admit since I can’t find my source.
I’m also concerned about the SOPA legislation Wade mentioned, but I realize it’s a separate (though very entangled) topic. Since the bill is entitled “Stop Online Piracy Act,” it’s much like the Patriot act, in that it says one thing to evoke certain thoughts; but its actual stated powers and actions are quite contrary to the name. Or at least, there is a sinister side to the bill beneath it’s benevolent title and idealism.
Like so much legislation, it sounds good, but it wouldn’t actually solve the problem, and creates many new ones.
Much like the first dissenters against the patriot act had uninformed individuals questioning their patriotism; SOPA dissenters are questioned as supporting piracy. When in both cases, it’s the bill’s content, not it’s idealism, the dissenters oppose.
Not to send the conversation onto a different topic, but I agree with Adrian and disagree with Elysia on ebook pricing because ebooks aren’t fully “owned”. They are merely licensed and there are all sorts of restrictions to the license such as not being able to resell it and not being able to lend it more than once, and then for only two weeks. So for this reason, and not for the fact that they are not physically produced, they should be priced significantly lower than physical books (no less than 33%). The only “ownership” one has to an ebook is that one “owns” the right to read it. I’m totally against pirated books, btw, and I love all Llewllyn authors, especially those of my friend, Margaret Lembo!
Great post, Elysia. I’ve dealt with numerous websites infringing my copyrights and served multiple DMCA Take Down Notices which I did through Google – the stolen content was gone within a week. Google were great. I always notify their ISP also.
I’m ruthless about it as, like you said in your post, I spend hours researching, writing, editing and creating my own images for each post. I provide that content for free reading on my blog but I certainly do not provide it so that someone else can make money from it.
Some are only misguided about internet usage, but the others are underhanded, unethical and should be dealt with swiftly and fully. If you saw some of the email exchanges I’ve had with these sites you’d cringe.
I just noticed the Dresden files book topic. Some ebook pricing is set by the publisher, as is in this case. Please note that Amazon clearly states on the page where they sell the kindle version:
Sold by: Penguin Publishing
This price was set by the publisher
Also B&N sells it for the same price, because they are forced to do so by the publisher. Amazon places this disclaimer because it wants to point fingers at the publisher for the high price. Amazon would LOVE to sell this book @ $9.99 because that’s an ebook’s “sweet spot”. They would sell loads and loads of them. People tend to balk at $14.99 ebook pricing of novels.
This is very important and I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I do have one point to make regarding pricing for the Kindle edition (or any e-edition) of a book. The only difference between an ebook and a paper book is the media in which it it presented. The same amount of work which has gone in to researching, writing and formatting a paper book goes into an e-book as well. On that basis perhaps we should ask why so many ebooks are so cheap and that perhaps we should all be prepared to pay more for it on that basis, since surely all the people doing the same work should be equally compensated.
With ebooks the niceness is the fact that we can all squeeze many books into a small portable device, not necessarily their cheapness. I am sure that over time, once everyone uses a kindle or similar device prices will rise.
I feel that the digital age in many ways cheapens knowledge too much so we do not appreciate the work which has gone into an ebook as much as we do (or should) into a paper book and this is as true for a paperback it is is from an exquisitely bound item from one of the Talismanic publishers.
The bottom line however is Elysia is correct and piracy is theft which is only going to damage the people who write and publish the books in the first case. Do it enough and they will stop. If the “pirates” were instead to concentrate their energies on (legally) reproducing those long out of print books which are out of copyright it would take the same amount of work and we might all even pay them for it enriching everyone.
On pagan moots I’ve got several times a pirated copy offered of books I wrote myself. Those people didn’t know I was the author. I refused, telling I had the printed book already at home, and asked what they think how the author would see this. They told me, they were sure that he didn’t mind. Then I asked if they liked the books. Both answered: “Oh, I haven’t read it myself, they’ve too many pages.”
I left….. couldn’t do anything but laughing…. rather helplessly.
Thank you for such a well-written post, Elysia! I’ve asked this pirate to remove my book twice now in the past 24 hours and was assured the first time that no harm was intended because the original material might disappear from the web (it’s for sale on my website and on Amazon, dingbat, so stop puting it on YOUR server)and that she has graciously linked back to the publisher site because we’d “kindly” donated it to them. UNTRUE. She’d also told me she’d removed the reference but instead has restated on the site that the copyright has been approved???? I guess it’s okay to steal from my children and me if you can verify that we own the material you’re stealing.
What an excellent and well thought out article…thank you! I am a pagan and a traditionally published author of dark fantasy. What I earn from my books is not life changing but years of hard work have gone into writing my books and I expect people to pay to read them. I happily pay to go the movies, theatre, sports events or hire a dvd.I pay a tutor to teach me Spanish. Why should a book be any different as a form of entertainment or enlightenment.
Bright Blessings,
Raven
Thank you for an excellent article. This has long been a gripe of mine and I have in the past e-mailed several authors to let them know when I found pirated internet copies of their books.
I remember being on a message board from Australia years ago and found they were publishing chapters of Ray Buckland’s Big Blue Book. I cautioned them about copyright violation and was then called every name in the book. I was also told that this information should be available to everyone for free and that the author would approve if he knew about it. I notified Mr. Buckland who did not approve at all. The site was then told in no uncertain legal terms to remove the information.
I think that all of us have an obligation not only to not use pirated materials, but also to report egregious use of such materials on the internet.
Thank you for a very well-written article. I’d known some of this, some was new, and it’s all put together in a clear, readable manner.
And thank you and all of the commenters who spoke about “information should be free” as in ACCESS. So many excellent statements for rebuttals.
Just wanted to return to a small side point, the matter of how pagan and occult books are historically big targets for thieves from the public libraries. My librarian friends inform me that it’s more that the thieves want to assure that *no one else* can get at the material, not that they’re using it themselves. Public libraries have always been strapped for cash, more so now than ever. Even less chance now that they can afford to replace such stolen works.
Sorry, but PDF copies will always be in my collection. I don’t have time to hunt down some books that are extremely rare/pricey. I don’t read novels, I read books on Occult philosophy. If I do enjoy a book I download, and it’s abundant, then I will purchase it. Otherwise, no. The Law is for All. As far as I’m concerned, most of this knowledge shouldn’t be payed for anyway.
Well said. I’ve had a lot of pirates tell that they steal my music to HELP me- it provides me with new fans and promotion, so when I go on tour, I can sell them merchandise.
Except, without the original CD sales- there is no money to either tour or print merchandise, and all I’m left with is the bill for the recording process, which is frequently in the thousands of dollars.
Some people just don’t get it.
First, let me say I am Llewellyn Author. I’ve seen my book pirated a few times. I dont make that much per book and in a real honest sense it has caused me to re-think writing another one, although I will this year ( there you go Elysia). Those people who know me, know this is not because I have nothing to say but actually because of the low return on investment, I might as well give the materials away or just focus on person to person magical development. Its not that I do not have other books in me or dont have a lot to say…Simply put it matters, its in the authors thinking… Even with my private school, Quantum Life Science Institute, there are several projects which could be ADVANCED books that we are working out. Thats right advanced materials, and partially because of the piracy issue we ask,, SHOULD we release this at all?
Thats the real actual chilling effect this has.
Regardless of what people say, the same people who pirate books almost NEVER pay for in person classes, or buy a CD. IT simply does not happen. Even taking the radical advice of putting a anonymous button on my page, where if people pirated my book, they could donate some money to me ( with no questions asked about the donation).. and I would promise to use that money to fund research materials for the next book… Thats not fair to the publisher, but I did it as an experiment.
The money got from that advice was $0. Thats right 0 dollars… So much for the ethical pirate straw man argument.
What this is fighting is a culture of entitlement and the idea that spiritual things should be free. There are many like myself that are successful, that might decide not to write another book because of that. No author I personal know, and I run a radio show at http://ddtrh.com and meet lots of authors… are rich. They do it because they want to share, but the idea of fair exchange is all gone.
Great comment, Andrieh! Pirates, read that, and think about whether you want authors to just throw in the towel and stop writing just because of your selfish actions!
I gotta say that I agree. I work in the film industry as well as the music industry (I’m in the indie world of it all) and I think it utterly sucks to have something like piracy happen. Especially for people in the indie world. It hurts too hard, and at a certain point, you have no money to be able to make things that people are getting for free. Also, potential big names could see what kind of sales you have, and if that amount is rather low, they won’t consider you at all for anything. It hurts way too much. Funny enough, I had this argument with someone who pirates everything, and his “job” is playing guitar in a bar for tips. I had to laugh at that. Also, it’s good to read what Elysia had to say with books, as I’m planning to write an occult book myself.
Thanks for the thoughtful post, and the wonderful Q&A format that spells out why copying is stealing no matter what. The same rules apply to artists, and we get pirated constantly on the internet, and quite often for profit. Thank you for your service to authors and artists in writing this thoughtful article.
Since nobody seems to be running over to LiveJournal to see the discussion there, I figured I’d re-post what I said there in this thread:
People have such an unrealistic view of the publishing business. I did a post on the subject a few months back … http://bit.ly/yxu4tj
It’s hard to believe, but the average newly-published book in the USA only sells 500 copies, and only 2% of all books published each year sell as many as 5,000 copies. Considering how little per copy most authors get paid, the top 2% of authors would be lucky to get a couple of thousand dollars, the rest (unless they got an amazing deal with a big advance) barely make anything.
When I ran Eschaton Books, I strongly encouraged our authors to go out and do readings/signings/events on their own. I’d send them copies, which they’d get at a discount from the wholesalers’ price, and they’d be able to sell the books to the bookstore at their regular wholesale discount, and the authors would make the mark-up that the wholesalers would normally get (about 15%) plus the discount I was giving them, meaning they’d be getting about 20% of the cover price. This was a lot better than getting 10% of whatever the wholesalers paid for the book (which would have worked out to under 5% of the cover price).
It’s always best, if possible, to buy books and music directly from the author/musician or their web site. Sure, it’s easier to get it from Amazon, but they get the deepest discounts from anybody in the book publishing food chain, something like 66% off of cover, so a book sold via that channel is likely to only net the author 3.4% of cover, meaning for a $25 book, they’d only be making 85¢ … and quite possibly less. A book that was bought directly from one of our authors (and again, I don’t know what sort of discounts other publishers offer, this is the deal we had in place), and not sold via a store, would have given them 60% of cover, making $15.00 on a $25 book!
Needless to say, this is a HUGE difference, so I always recommend getting books/music direct if you can.
Hi BTRIPP! I actually did read the LJ discussion and thought it was very good – but since I don’t have an account I couldn’t (or didn’t try to figure out how to) post there. Thank you very much for contributing to the conversation over here too!
I agree that if products are bought directly from the author, they get to keep more profit. Same goes for buying from the publisher rather than a bookstore, which gets a significant discount off the cover price. HOWEVER… in a small community like ours, I feel it is equally important to support our local independent bookstores! Especially metaphysical ones. They are truly a boon to our communities and we want to keep them happy and well-fed as well!
I am glad that you posted this. last year I read a clip somewhere that a site was putting up free book content for people where they were collecting old books and such for people to be able to read. From the sounds of it I thought that they meant old stuff and material that had been approved by the author. Perhaps not, because what you are saying sounds like it could have been that same site, although there was not a link to the site.
Right now there is concern going around that we are going to be looking at more control and punishment for first time offenders of piracy, but even more, simply of linking to other peoples sites or quoting shared info from other peoples works even for ‘brief quotations embodied in critical articles and reviews’on blogs and such, even with proper credits being given. This would make it very difficult to share and give references, something that readers require to believe anything a writer may be trying to get across.
I totally understand the concern of piracy and theft. It is a wrong as any other kind of theft. However, I have often had a problem with finding information and books that are written for the sake of the SurVIval of our land and our people and then find that it is priced so much higher then a lot of the other books that are written for entertainment and/or the teaching of ‘hidden mysteries’ and such. I do not have anything against charging for spiritual material or ‘hidden mystery’ material, and often have felt guilty buy books used, knowing that the author may not be getting paid for these books that are making the second hand circuit, but…I ‘Feel’ as though, if a book is written for the planetary survival and continuance of our species, the author would want to make certain that the pertinent information would be available to all regardless of their economic ability and status. Even on Kindle i have found these books to be more expensive then buying other peoples hardcopies. I appreciate the time spent for all of the above that you have quoted, as well as the free sites, but it does cause me to wonder more about the validity of the information (given for the sake of our very survival)and thus more hesitant to accept the truth of what they are speaking, especially in terms of information given that would help people know how to face the dangers and threats that we may face in coming days. Not that i mind supporting the writer or the publisher…I don’t…I love the fact of supporting my teachers and those who get the information out, but, as I said above i do question the sincerity, as stated above in these instances.
Great post Elysia!
It always amazes me that some people feel entitled to steal our work (not to mention the time, effort and money it takes to produce a book). Self-righteous pirates who steal our work (and in reality they are stealing the food off our tables and out of the mouths of our families) with the pathetic “information should be free” argument, are hurting the very people whose ideas they pretend to respect.
I would really like to ask these pirates why they think THEIR work shouldn’t also be free: Hey Pirate, are you a computer programmer? Computers are all about the storage of information. Why should YOU get a pay-check? You should just work for free. In fact, anybody whose work has anything to do with computers, networking, IT, etc, should just work for nothing.
Heck, why should we stop at “information”? Why should we have to pay for food. People gotta eat, so farmers should just give away all their produce…
Sorry to rattle on and on, but like most authors, I get tired of being ripped off by sanctimonious thieves.
I just read through a few more of the comments where you, Elysia and others have mentioned how Amazon set the prices on the Kindle (as well as book) at often higher prices then the publisher (or Author) would like. This answer my questions on that.
[…] Myths About Pirated Books […]
“the knowledge shouldn’t be Payed away.”
nice and what do you do for a living? I’m going to go steal directly from your trade, your personal business and see how well ya do.
*okay not really but that’s a pretty selfish stance to consider that someone wrote, and spent often time more than a year gathering information, practicing, teaching, applying, redressing.
I’d get their IP and report them.
I’ve sat with this blog post for the day and surprised no one is mentioning the obvious. Please forgive and allow me to ask a sicere question
You said:
Like the universe itself, you are keeping energy in balance, in motion, in an unbroken chain, just as it likes.
This rant gives an incredible amount of energy to others stealing from you. Why put that energy out there?
Thanks, Gds. Based on your comment (and my mulling the whole situation further overnight), I added a paragraph to my new blog post, “Deep Thoughts from a Book Pirater.” It goes like this:
I guess one of the reasons I have even bothered to post twice now about piracy (which is very old news) is that I have a sincere hope that at least our niche, spiritual community, unlike the masses of nameless Internet surfers downloading Nickelback, will see the value, ethics, and repercussions involved in this situation, and rise above others. I hope that Pagans, Wiccans and magicians of all stripes will fully support our small and fledgling community. I hope that Pagans, Wiccans, and magicians actually have superior ethics to others, guided by the Rede and the threefold law of karmic return. That is really the whole reason I am writing this post.
AMEN!
Thank you, Elysia; that is just excellent!
BB-OZ
I have read your second blog, with letter, and I have to say, the idea of somebody posting Authors work in full without authors permissions is something that I find totally incredible. I myself have posted clippings from sites to show as reference to my work….until I found copyright notice to the entire site and have sought permissions to use it.
I have found sites where authors have shared their whole books on their own blog for free to read….
even the idea that somebody would pull unpublished works that have been given as a gift for free, and publish them on their own sites with-out that authors permission is priacy, imo, even if it has not been published for money it is still the authors work and deserves permissions. I know that I would hate to think that somebody would think that they had the rights to my own original works, beyond using short clips for fair share discussion and purposes, especially when most blogs include a comment section or e-mail where the author can be contacted. It might be nice to know that ones work is considered important enough to share, but there is always a way to get in touch with author personally if one wants to make their work more publick. You have included, and these comments have shed much light on the fair share and other laws. My own work has been pulled from my blogs for updating and legalizing….only being put out there freely so that I could share material that was important for the publick to know and be aware of some of the ‘brain piracy’ that seems has gone around a lot….everywhere…as though one has complete rights to another persons brain to use as they see fit! Unimaginable but true. However, as important as I felt and still believe my work was, i would not appreciate its being stolen in full with-out permission. Thus I can understand an authors anger and feelings of being violated to have somebody steal their work and use it as indiscriminately as you have been describing. I hope you message goes out loud and clear and more viral. Don’t do it.
I do have a question that I have been wondering since I began reading your article and comments. Although I doubt very much that anybody has used my own personal and original works with-out my knowledge, they did contain material that, as I have said is in process of gaining permissions, but…..
Theoretically, if somebody did steal and re-publish elsewhere with-out permissions and after I’d pulled them off of my blog, with the stories still containing containing the work with-out copyright permissions, who would be held in contempt for this? If I had not given permission for their usage and was in process of gaining copyright permissions, would I be held in contempt, even though I have removed content, or would the pirate be held in double contempt? The thing is one of these copyright laws that i am seeking is from a very larger entity/corporation and i would certainly hate to find myself facing them in court. Any thoughts on that?
[…] any given week. So The Wild Hunt must unleash the hounds in order to round them all up.This week Elysia at Llewellyn tackled the thorny issue of Pagan/metaphysical book piracy after discovering a site distributing PDF copies of 32 Llewellyn titles. Several emails and one […]
Hi Elysia
As a published author and forthcoming author with Llewellyn (“Around the Tarot in 78 Days”, May 2012 and “Tarot Face to Face”, Sep 2012) with my co-author Tali Goodwin, we entirely agree with your blog post. I was inspired to write my monthly column yesterday on the same subject in “Magical Light” magazine, and entitled it “Pagan Pirates: Why They Are Keeping You Stupid”.
And guess what? The very next day we had it happen again! Someone using material in an online course without thought or attribution from one of our recent books. When requested, they offered to remove the material, so long as *we* identified which bits they had copied … as if I could stop my writing and teaching schedule to help them undo what they had just admitted they had done … unbelievable.
I loved BTRIPPs points, and I wrote something similar, about the realities of authoring, on our TarotSpeakeasy.com Blog (“So You Want to be a Tarot Author?”) and in that recent “Magical Light” column. The more pirate sites that get discouraged and shunned, the better for everyone. It’s otherwise simply making it harder to put out innovative and considered material, and forcing us to “hide” our material inside workshops, private courses, membership-only sites and 1:1 tuition.
Thank you for adding your considerations and sparking debate in what will no doubt be a continuing issue this decade.
Marcus Katz
[…] by a recent copyright violation scandal that Elysia Gallo has written about at the Llewellyn blog here and […]
Legal and moral considerations notwithstanding, I don’t see why anybody would want pdf’s of books. Few things are more migraine-inducing than reading a pdf of just a few pages, let alone one with hundreds of pages. Even pirating mp3’s makes some sense, because an mp3 is enjoyable. Reading a pdf isn’t.
I dont want to upset the authors but many of these authors are providing religiouse text and i am sure their are laws protecting rights of inderviduals to practice and learn about all religions now since most book in question are bias towards pagans and their practices they are designed to influance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_on_religious_works
so we have to show some balance many good pagans will use online books for research but will also delete and buy the book in the end even if they are only second hand.
Now i have books which where passed down to me many of which i have passed on and they have been passed on the author has never gained from this we live in a digital age may be its time that that publishers took more control and produced digital product which where free online or cost to download with discounts to users that download digital version that buy a hard copy pirate copy will not stop unless authors and publishers meet the demand.
we also have to remember that if it on the web somewhere it is in the public domain rightly or wrongly but if we want an internet that is open we have to put up with it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act i am sure that many authors use youtube and share other users posts on facebook so unless they are purer than pure a little piracy does help spread the word of their book leading to sales sure at its most basic a point of 6 or 3×3 no pagan worth their salt would ever use a download for ritual work but if a book is of value they will buy it.
The biggest question is did you write to inform and teach or did you do it to make a buck ?????
if it for a buck then you deserve to be ripped off coz your not doing what the goddess and god wants the goddess/god gave you knowledge so you could share not for you to profit